|
|
Rank: Moderator
Joined: 1/2/2008
Posts: 33
Location: La Crosse, WI
|
Guys,
I think some of you might have been expecting this question - but I'd like to hear from some of the people that have been around for a while regarding the WBFN's scoring rules in tournaments. Specifically the ruling towards "late" and "short" fish penalties.
I would have thought (and correct me if you feel inclined to) that the WBFN was somewhat inclined to follow the rules that B.A.S.S. has handed down in their organization for tournament rules....Especially since those would be the rules our State anglers would have to follow at the Divisional and National Championships...??
I checked the rules for The Elites, Opens, Weekend Series, and found the following to be uniform throughout:
Fish Care (dead) penalty: 4oz's
Late: 1lb per minute - DQ after 15 min.
Short fish: 1lb deduction (loss of fish wasn't mentioned - but know that is sometimes the norm)??
WBFN - Dead: 4oz
Late: DQ
Short: DQ
I'm just curious how this came to be and the reasoning behind it? Personally I would like to see the WBFN stay uniform with the rules as you move up/down the B.A.S.S. heirarchy - but that is just me -What do others think?
Jeremiah Shaver
River Road Bassmasters
La Crosse, WI
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 1/3/2008
Posts: 64
Location: Appleton, WI
|
Jeremiah If you have a question or something does not meet your liking, call Terry Hilbert and he will clairify any questions you have reguarding tournament rules and regulations. If you would like the board to review the current rules or something else send a formal letter or email to the president.
Chris Johnson
WBFN - Vice President / Sponsor Director
Green Bay Bassmasters
><((((º>`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸.•´¯`•...¸><((((º>
¸.•´¯`•.¸. , . .•´¯`•..><((((º>`•.¸¸.•´¯`•.¸.•´¯`•...¸><((((º>
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Joined: 1/2/2008
Posts: 33
Location: La Crosse, WI
|
Is there an issue with me trying to gather information and other member views first before making a decision on whether or not I want to bring this up to the board at the reps meeting or by a formal letter?
Isn't that what this forum is meant for?
Jeremiah Shaver
River Road Bassmasters
La Crosse, WI
|
|
Rank: Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 14
Location: La Crosse
|
I am going to side with Jermiah on this one. This past weekend we had an issue come up at the Jr's. I made a mistake on a dead fish penalty. It created an issue so I was told we need to go by BASS's rules. We looked them up right there and it was straightened out. Now for some reasoning. I was told we have to follow BASS's rules since that is what they will have to follow at the Northern Divisional. With that said, will the adults not have to follow the same rules? I feel that there is a flaw in our tournament rules, and that there is not a consistent flow. If our clubs are to follow BASS's rules in their tournaments, what makes the State Tournament different? I think this is a good question and needs to be discussed as a group and what better place to discuss this is in a forum. We are all adults and I think we can do this civilized. We could even make this a poll question. It is an excellent tool for the board to gather information on how the general membership feels. This may be an opportunity to have an issue brought up at the next Rep's meeting to be voted on with general membership input already displayed. We have had issues that are brought up at a Rep's meeting, then we take them back to our clubs, then we come back to a Rep's meeting with the results. Let's try to streamline this by using this forum as a tool.
Todd
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 90
Location: Schaumburg, IL
|
Interesting!
Good Points and Discussion. Our WBFN rules DO differ a little from B.A.S.S.
Sound like a GREAT topic for the October Rep's Meeting.
|
|
Rank: Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 14
Location: La Crosse
|
Let's add a poll. " Should the WBFN revise it's By-Laws to coincide with B.A.S.S. Tournament Rules?" Yes / No
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 82
Location: Sheboygan County, WI
|
I agree with Jeff that this is an interesting discussion. We followed our existing rules for these decisions at the state tournament. but that doesn't mean if the majority of the membership wants to see a change it can't be changed. That is why we have the reps meetings to learn the wishes of the WBFN membership.
The tournament rules were revised a year ago. They can be revised again.
Personally, my feeling is that I would like to see a late penalty rather than a DQ. (I was DQ'd on day one; got caught in the lock.) As far as the short fish DQ, having a short fish is actually a violation of the miniumum size limit of the State of WI. Our existing tournament rules state that any violation is a DQ. I would lean towards keeping the DQ for a short fish. One I lean towards changing the other not. JMHO.
Tom Ehrenberg
Waupaca Bass Club
WBFN Secretary
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 90
Location: Schaumburg, IL
|
My intial thought is that the short fish / DQ policy should stay as is.
My reason is that if the DNR caught you with a short fish you would receive a ticket. If you receive a ticket in a WBFN tournament you are DQ'ed.
My compromise would be that the WBFN will supply a courtesy bump station using the same ruler being used on stage at all WBFN tournaments.
|
|
Rank: Moderator
Joined: 1/2/2008
Posts: 33
Location: La Crosse, WI
|
Tom E wrote: As far as the short fish DQ, having a short fish is actually a violation of the miniumum size limit of the State of WI. Our existing tournament rules state that any violation is a DQ. I would lean towards keeping the DQ for a short fish. One I lean towards changing the other not. JMHO. I'm sure it's a violation in every state, but yet a full DQ isn't the norm in regards to a short fish. Many of us know that a close fish can swing either way by the time it hits whoever is checking the fish. Bump boards are different and not everyone owns a "golden rule" to check; Plus, with no courtesy board (a whole other topic) - you really don't have much choice but to take your chances. I'd like to see a penalty, but no DQ. Lastly - there are a few other violations that come to mind that I don't want to mention that could argue a double standard if anyone catches my drift. Good Discussion - thanks.
Jeremiah Shaver River Road Bassmasters La Crosse, WI
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 82
Location: Sheboygan County, WI
|
Jeremiah wrote:Lastly - there are a few other violations that come to mind that I don't want to mention that could argue a double standard if anyone catches my drift.. You are correct Jeremiah that there are "a few others". However, if someone receives a citation for these violations that also is a DQ. In those cases the citation is used as proof that there was a violation. I agree that there are times when it seems fish "shrink" in the live well. IMO these should be double checked by the angler before bringing to the scale. In a sense, bringing a short fish to the scale is the proof of the violation. Yes, there are many different ways to look at this aren't there!!  I am glad to see the forum being used for these types of discussions. I would think that this is definitely something that should be put on the reps meeting agenda for October. Thanks for bringing it up Jeremiah.
Tom Ehrenberg Waupaca Bass Club WBFN Secretary
|
|
Rank: Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 14
Location: La Crosse
|
I agree it is a violation, however, B.A.S.S. coincides with the state laws for fish size.
"16. SCORING: Tournament standings, auxiliary awards and final winners shall be determined by the pound and ounce weight of each competitor’s catch during the competition days of the tournament. Only Largemouth, Smallmouth, Spotted, Redeye or Shoal bass will be weighed. The limit shall be 5 of the above species and varieties per day, unless otherwise specified by tournament officials. At no time shall a competitor have in his or her possession more than the tournament limit. Tournament officials will conduct checks for violation of this provision. In the event a competitor has more than the above-described limit in possession, officials shall cull down to the limit described, beginning with the largest bass first. The official length for bass shall be determined by the Tournament Director and announced at the tournament briefing. In most cases it will be the longest state limit covering the tournament waters. Only bass as described above which measure the official length or more on the longest straight line, shall be weighed. Bass presented for weigh-in which fail to measure the official length shall result in a penalty of 1 pound for each such bass, which penalty shall be deducted from the total score of the competitor. Any bass that appears to have been mangled, mashed, mauled or otherwise altered will be weighed and credited only at the discretion of tournament officials. After competitors check-in at the official checkpoint they must present all legal fish in their possession to a tournament official to be counted, measured and weighed. Once a competitor’s catch is measured, counted and verified by a tournament official, that competitor may not return to the boat until their catch has been weighed and recorded. Bass must not be stringered at any time during the tournament. Culling tags or clips are allowed. Specially designed bags which increase survival rate will be furnished by the Tournament Director and must be used for the weigh-in.
As the rule above, taken from B.A.S.S. Federation Nation site, states it is a one pound penalty.
18. LATE PENALTY: Competitors who are not at the official check-in point, as described in Rule 15, at the appointed time, shall be penalized at the rate of 1 pound per minute late to be deducted from the total weight of his/her catch that day, including any weight to be counted toward a “big bass award”. Any competitor more than 15 minutes late shall lose all credit for that day’s catch. There shall be no excuse for tardiness and in no case shall a competitor be allowed to make up “lost time.” After proper recognition at the check-in point, competitors will be allowed ample time to proceed to the weigh-in site; however, all fishing must cease upon check-in. After the tournament begins, fishing the tournament waters is prohibited except during the tournament hours. Exact starting and check-in times will be announced at the tournament briefing. It is each angler’s responsibility to confirm check-in times each day on the daily pairings.
And here it states the rule for being late. No where does it DQ unless you are more than 15 min late.
These rules that are in place are more stringent and I believe are unfair. I know of two anglers who were affected by these rules and may have had a chance at the state team had the WBFN been following the Federation Nation rules.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 82
Location: Sheboygan County, WI
|
Tobi, the reps voted for the existing tournament rules for the WBFN. The reps can also vote to change them if that is their desire.
Tom Ehrenberg
Waupaca Bass Club
WBFN Secretary
|
|
Rank: Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 14
Location: La Crosse
|
By the way Tom. Your avatar shows you at -50 points. I am going to be the points police and it will cost you $.50 for every negative point. Therefore, next time you are in La Crosse you can take me to dinner. 
|
|
Rank: Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 14
Location: La Crosse
|
I understand that Tom. I was just looking at the forum as a tool for all of us to see where things are leaning. We can then use this information, along with the Rep's discussion to come up with a decision based on members, reps, and the boards input. We could actually use the forum, like they are intended for, to present information and ideas before the reps meetings and get the input so we can vote on them right away rather than take two meetings to discuss and vote.
|
|
Rank: Administration
Joined: 1/2/2008
Posts: 90
Location: La Crosse, WI
|
Honestly, I have no idea how those points are calculated. I wish I could figure out how to take them off. I'll try to figure it out soon.
Brian Christianson
WBFN Web Administrator
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 90
Location: Schaumburg, IL
|
BC Huuummm.... Based on Point Police Officer Tobi........you owe $58.50 in beers. Your -117 points X $0.50 You can pay up at the October Rep's Meeting  No wonder you want to get rid of them.
|
|
Rank: Advanced Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 90
Location: Schaumburg, IL
|
Sorry....-178 points is $89.00 in beers......my bad!
|
|
Rank: Administration
Joined: 1/2/2008
Posts: 90
Location: La Crosse, WI
|
Crap!
Brian Christianson
WBFN Web Administrator
|
|
Rank: Member
Joined: 1/24/2008
Posts: 14
Location: La Crosse
|
I hope it is a short meeting. We may be there awhile
|
|
Rank: Rookie
Joined: 8/5/2008
Posts: 1
Location: La Crosse, WI
|
I think the short fish thing is a little bit extreme. Reason being, there are SMALL differences from bump board to bump board, and what touches the line on one may be a 1/8 inch or less short on another. Heck, if the short end gets bent a small amount, it could effect it 1/8th inch. I would be for even the fish being thrown out AND a one pound penalty enforced, but to me a DQ on the basis of a short fish is TOO much.
The courtesy board is another good idea, especially if the DQ rule is left in place, as another method to rectify between slight differences in bump boards.
I get the argument that technically it is an "illegal" fish, but I'm not sure if the DNR would write a ticket for a fish that falls within say 1/4 to 1/8 inch of the line, especially on a single fish of a limit that is legal. Similar to a cop giving tickets for 56 in a 55 zone. There are true poachers out there the DNR should be worried about, not someone who falls just shy of the legal limit on one fish of 5. If I got pulled over by the DNR and my fish was just shy on their board, but to or over the line on mine, I would request a digital picture of the fish on both boards, and fight the ticket in court. I have no idea if I could win, but I would sure think there would be enough doubt to get the ticket thrown out.
Just one man's opinion.
|
|
|
Guest |
